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	<title>Comments on: Dear Imprudence: Do I Give Up Rights To Bodily Autonomy When I Leave the Dorm Room?</title>
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	<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/</link>
	<description>FWD (feminists with disabilities) for a way forward</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 17:29:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Cassandra</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/#comment-13495</link>
		<dc:creator>Cassandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 10:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3624#comment-13495</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not particularly touchy feely except with my boyfriend. He&#039;s the only one that seems to know how to read what kind of touch I can handle at a particular moment without me having to tell him. When I get a migraine it hurts to be touched even lightly. I&#039;m super dizzy most of the time too and even a small touch can make me feel like I&#039;m going to fall over. It&#039;s hard to explain to people.

I had super long hair in high school and if I wore it down people I didn&#039;t know would walk up behind me and start playing with it. It always made me feel so awkward especially since I couldn&#039;t even see the person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not particularly touchy feely except with my boyfriend. He&#8217;s the only one that seems to know how to read what kind of touch I can handle at a particular moment without me having to tell him. When I get a migraine it hurts to be touched even lightly. I&#8217;m super dizzy most of the time too and even a small touch can make me feel like I&#8217;m going to fall over. It&#8217;s hard to explain to people.</p>
<p>I had super long hair in high school and if I wore it down people I didn&#8217;t know would walk up behind me and start playing with it. It always made me feel so awkward especially since I couldn&#8217;t even see the person.</p>
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		<title>By: Kali</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/#comment-13407</link>
		<dc:creator>Kali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 03:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3624#comment-13407</guid>
		<description>Because of my connective tissue disorder, I don&#039;t like being hugged or having my hand shaken.  It&#039;s too likely for people to dislocate things.

I offer my hand in the &#039;kiss my hand&#039; type position, because then people usually just lightly clasp my hand.  It&#039;s safer for me.

I also tend to flinch away from hugs, because they might dislocate my shoulders.

Explaining this to people stinks, because saying &#039;I don&#039;t shake hands&#039; makes people think you have some opposition to shaking hands with THEM.  So I end up telling them why I can&#039;t shake hands, and oh how I love gratuitous explanations of my disability.  My favorite thing to do.  *rolls her eyes*

~Kali</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because of my connective tissue disorder, I don&#8217;t like being hugged or having my hand shaken.  It&#8217;s too likely for people to dislocate things.</p>
<p>I offer my hand in the &#8216;kiss my hand&#8217; type position, because then people usually just lightly clasp my hand.  It&#8217;s safer for me.</p>
<p>I also tend to flinch away from hugs, because they might dislocate my shoulders.</p>
<p>Explaining this to people stinks, because saying &#8216;I don&#8217;t shake hands&#8217; makes people think you have some opposition to shaking hands with THEM.  So I end up telling them why I can&#8217;t shake hands, and oh how I love gratuitous explanations of my disability.  My favorite thing to do.  *rolls her eyes*</p>
<p>~Kali</p>
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		<title>By: Kassiane</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/#comment-13368</link>
		<dc:creator>Kassiane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3624#comment-13368</guid>
		<description>I love hugs like woah (read this as: I like being squashed, &amp; hugs are more socially acceptable than asking people to stand on me) , as long as I know and trust the person hugging me. 

I&#039;m also quite aware that some people hate being touched, so I ask people if they&#039;re hug people, rather than assuming they want to hug me. It&#039;d be presumptuous to assume everyone wants to touch.

But, ugh, there are just some kinds of touch that scream WRONG. I about decked a guy who decided he could do the &quot;hand on the lower back&quot; thing that feels all proprietary. NOT OK DUDE, I BARELY KNOW YOU. Wrong, wrong, wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love hugs like woah (read this as: I like being squashed, &amp; hugs are more socially acceptable than asking people to stand on me) , as long as I know and trust the person hugging me. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m also quite aware that some people hate being touched, so I ask people if they&#8217;re hug people, rather than assuming they want to hug me. It&#8217;d be presumptuous to assume everyone wants to touch.</p>
<p>But, ugh, there are just some kinds of touch that scream WRONG. I about decked a guy who decided he could do the &#8220;hand on the lower back&#8221; thing that feels all proprietary. NOT OK DUDE, I BARELY KNOW YOU. Wrong, wrong, wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Astrid</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/#comment-13338</link>
		<dc:creator>Astrid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3624#comment-13338</guid>
		<description>I can so definitely relate to this subject and to all the other comments. I am blind, so people feel entitled to touch me as a means of &quot;helping&quot;. Then again, I have sensory issues and can&#039;t stand unexpected touch (although I crave touch in certain situations). It is so not okay to call on people&#039;s ignorance as an excuse for inappropriate touching. Happens to me as a blind person, too: &quot;Sighted people don&#039;t know any better.&quot; Well then let me educate them, but when I do, I&#039;m told I&#039;m rude and they &quot;just wanted to be nice&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can so definitely relate to this subject and to all the other comments. I am blind, so people feel entitled to touch me as a means of &#8220;helping&#8221;. Then again, I have sensory issues and can&#8217;t stand unexpected touch (although I crave touch in certain situations). It is so not okay to call on people&#8217;s ignorance as an excuse for inappropriate touching. Happens to me as a blind person, too: &#8220;Sighted people don&#8217;t know any better.&#8221; Well then let me educate them, but when I do, I&#8217;m told I&#8217;m rude and they &#8220;just wanted to be nice&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaitlyn</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/#comment-13337</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaitlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3624#comment-13337</guid>
		<description>It does, Tori.

It should be shifted to the toucher, which is another part of rape culture - the victims are responsible, we must protect ourselves. But no one teaches people *not* to rape, to take no as no, to respect bodily autonomy.

Babysteps

And the food in the cleavage thing? So creepy.

Another thing analogous to rape - the guy who, it seems, molested you at the club. &quot;What do you expect?&quot; It was your fault for objecting.

But babysteps. Don&#039;t touch me, and respect my request when I ask you to stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does, Tori.</p>
<p>It should be shifted to the toucher, which is another part of rape culture &#8211; the victims are responsible, we must protect ourselves. But no one teaches people *not* to rape, to take no as no, to respect bodily autonomy.</p>
<p>Babysteps</p>
<p>And the food in the cleavage thing? So creepy.</p>
<p>Another thing analogous to rape &#8211; the guy who, it seems, molested you at the club. &#8220;What do you expect?&#8221; It was your fault for objecting.</p>
<p>But babysteps. Don&#8217;t touch me, and respect my request when I ask you to stop.</p>
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		<title>By: Kite</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/#comment-13334</link>
		<dc:creator>Kite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 05:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3624#comment-13334</guid>
		<description>... reading that para, I HAVE had lots of problems with unwanted touch, but I&#039;ve usually come out of it feeling okay, because I said something I guess. Or I avoided the impending bad touch on the dancefloor, or on a bike coming the other way to mine their hands outstretched, or something being thrown at me, by doing something first. (Which I&#039;ve been lucky with, to be able to respond, and to get out of it okay.) Flirty social touch rather than gropey or haha-violence touch, I&#039;ve had not so much, men avoid that thank god, and women just don&#039;t. I dunno.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; reading that para, I HAVE had lots of problems with unwanted touch, but I&#8217;ve usually come out of it feeling okay, because I said something I guess. Or I avoided the impending bad touch on the dancefloor, or on a bike coming the other way to mine their hands outstretched, or something being thrown at me, by doing something first. (Which I&#8217;ve been lucky with, to be able to respond, and to get out of it okay.) Flirty social touch rather than gropey or haha-violence touch, I&#8217;ve had not so much, men avoid that thank god, and women just don&#8217;t. I dunno.</p>
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		<title>By: Kite</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/#comment-13333</link>
		<dc:creator>Kite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 05:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3624#comment-13333</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t had much problem with unwanted touch from people I encounter, apart from a few bad assault-like cases. People just don&#039;t seem to go there with me, I think I must be giving off a &quot;don&#039;t-fuck-with-me&quot; vibe or something??? I&#039;ve usually looked fairly butch, it&#039;s when I look more feminine that I&#039;ve had more problems. Also, I&#039;m tall, I&#039;m white, and I look able-bodied, so that might reduce some of it. And I&#039;ve been known to step on men&#039;s toes or ride up their arse or knock them, if they&#039;ve tried something on me. As for women, women don&#039;t touch me, unless we know each other very well, and I&#039;ve loosened up. So I don&#039;t really know what to say, but if I have been touched, I usually scream stuff, or jerk back or flinch, or get a red haze and fuck conventions. Might be because of physical abuse growing up, where I&#039;d struggle and scream a lot. (Verbal intrusions are a different matter, I am much more likely to take shit without even giving myself the option to respond sometimes, it depends on the context, I&#039;d like to be more responsive about this.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t had much problem with unwanted touch from people I encounter, apart from a few bad assault-like cases. People just don&#8217;t seem to go there with me, I think I must be giving off a &#8220;don&#8217;t-fuck-with-me&#8221; vibe or something??? I&#8217;ve usually looked fairly butch, it&#8217;s when I look more feminine that I&#8217;ve had more problems. Also, I&#8217;m tall, I&#8217;m white, and I look able-bodied, so that might reduce some of it. And I&#8217;ve been known to step on men&#8217;s toes or ride up their arse or knock them, if they&#8217;ve tried something on me. As for women, women don&#8217;t touch me, unless we know each other very well, and I&#8217;ve loosened up. So I don&#8217;t really know what to say, but if I have been touched, I usually scream stuff, or jerk back or flinch, or get a red haze and fuck conventions. Might be because of physical abuse growing up, where I&#8217;d struggle and scream a lot. (Verbal intrusions are a different matter, I am much more likely to take shit without even giving myself the option to respond sometimes, it depends on the context, I&#8217;d like to be more responsive about this.)</p>
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		<title>By: Tori</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/#comment-13331</link>
		<dc:creator>Tori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3624#comment-13331</guid>
		<description>Kaitlyn,

I meant that rape culture sends us a lot of messages about how it&#039;s okay for privileged groups of people to ignore the bodily autonomy of non-privileged groups. I&#039;m not suggesting those rape culture messages are at all &lt;i&gt;right&lt;/i&gt;, but they are very much present. Leg-touching, back-massaging, shoulder-hugging, etc., as mentioned in the original pose, are &quot;moves&quot; that many guys are taught they can and &quot;should&quot; make on women. 

I can remember a couple of instances in college where, in the dining hall,  guy acquaintances of mine threw pieces of food into my cleavage. They joked that I must have been &quot;asking for it&quot; by wearing something low cut. Regardless of how I felt and regardless of the actual moral rightness, their actions were reinforced as normative and permissible -- because the people sitting with them &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; the people sitting with me laughed with them and at me. 

Similarly, a few years ago, I was at a bar and had a guy grind his groin against my ass. (There was dance music and a dance floor, but we were not on it.) I asked him to stop; that worked for about 10 minutes. When he repeated the action, I complained to security. Security told me, &quot;You don&#039;t come to a bar unless you want a little bumping and grinding.&quot; Again, as a separate issue from actual morality, social code reinforced to The Penis Grinder that he was right and I was wrong. 

A lot of the population is unobservantly immersed in rape culture. Many folks haven&#039;t critically examined it and may not even have a term to name it. Many of the bodily autonomy messages they&#039;ve internalized -- consciously or not -- is that people in less privileged groups (women, PWDs, queer folk, etc.) do not have a right to bodily autonomy and/or that it&#039;s okay to disrespect personal boundaries. I mean, yes, that&#039;s &lt;i&gt;wrong&lt;/i&gt; -- but right or wrong, it&#039;s still hard to fight against: a) social norms; b) people with power. 

And that&#039;s what I mean when I say it&#039;s accurate to call my reactions sort of unconventional. They shift the responsibility to the touch-er to process hir actions, possibly -- if the conversation gets to continue that long -- from the point of view of the person who received the unwanted touch. To folks who&#039;ve internalized but maybe never recognized or criticized some of the messages sent by a rape culture, that shift may be a pretty revolutionary thing. 

Does that clarify?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaitlyn,</p>
<p>I meant that rape culture sends us a lot of messages about how it&#8217;s okay for privileged groups of people to ignore the bodily autonomy of non-privileged groups. I&#8217;m not suggesting those rape culture messages are at all <i>right</i>, but they are very much present. Leg-touching, back-massaging, shoulder-hugging, etc., as mentioned in the original pose, are &#8220;moves&#8221; that many guys are taught they can and &#8220;should&#8221; make on women. </p>
<p>I can remember a couple of instances in college where, in the dining hall,  guy acquaintances of mine threw pieces of food into my cleavage. They joked that I must have been &#8220;asking for it&#8221; by wearing something low cut. Regardless of how I felt and regardless of the actual moral rightness, their actions were reinforced as normative and permissible &#8212; because the people sitting with them <i>and</i> the people sitting with me laughed with them and at me. </p>
<p>Similarly, a few years ago, I was at a bar and had a guy grind his groin against my ass. (There was dance music and a dance floor, but we were not on it.) I asked him to stop; that worked for about 10 minutes. When he repeated the action, I complained to security. Security told me, &#8220;You don&#8217;t come to a bar unless you want a little bumping and grinding.&#8221; Again, as a separate issue from actual morality, social code reinforced to The Penis Grinder that he was right and I was wrong. </p>
<p>A lot of the population is unobservantly immersed in rape culture. Many folks haven&#8217;t critically examined it and may not even have a term to name it. Many of the bodily autonomy messages they&#8217;ve internalized &#8212; consciously or not &#8212; is that people in less privileged groups (women, PWDs, queer folk, etc.) do not have a right to bodily autonomy and/or that it&#8217;s okay to disrespect personal boundaries. I mean, yes, that&#8217;s <i>wrong</i> &#8212; but right or wrong, it&#8217;s still hard to fight against: a) social norms; b) people with power. </p>
<p>And that&#8217;s what I mean when I say it&#8217;s accurate to call my reactions sort of unconventional. They shift the responsibility to the touch-er to process hir actions, possibly &#8212; if the conversation gets to continue that long &#8212; from the point of view of the person who received the unwanted touch. To folks who&#8217;ve internalized but maybe never recognized or criticized some of the messages sent by a rape culture, that shift may be a pretty revolutionary thing. </p>
<p>Does that clarify?</p>
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		<title>By: Soft_Cat</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/#comment-13330</link>
		<dc:creator>Soft_Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3624#comment-13330</guid>
		<description>I hated being touched as a kid. Handshakes were okay, but not hugging. It was pretty upsetting when people (almost invariable adults) wouldn&#039;t take me seriously, and would just hug me regardless of what I wanted. When someone was willing to just take the handshake, it made me feel happy and accepted.
Now I love touch, and I have to learn to negotiate interactions with other people so that everyone&#039;s comfortable. It&#039;s not always obvious how to do that, but it&#039;s worth doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hated being touched as a kid. Handshakes were okay, but not hugging. It was pretty upsetting when people (almost invariable adults) wouldn&#8217;t take me seriously, and would just hug me regardless of what I wanted. When someone was willing to just take the handshake, it made me feel happy and accepted.<br />
Now I love touch, and I have to learn to negotiate interactions with other people so that everyone&#8217;s comfortable. It&#8217;s not always obvious how to do that, but it&#8217;s worth doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaitlyn</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/28/dear-imprudence-do-i-give-up-rights-to-bodily-autonomy-when-i-leave-the-dorm-room/#comment-13329</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaitlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3624#comment-13329</guid>
		<description>Tori, I&#039;m a bit confused by this:

&quot;That said, it also gets me plenty of reactions like I am unconventional or out-of-line. And really, given that we’re all immersed in a rape culture, I kind of am. Not that I think my reaction is at all inappropriate — but it does go against a lot of the other messages people have learned about bodily autonomy. I’m not going to stop doing it, but I understand how it will be confusing to some people.&quot;

Why does it go against other messages about bodily autonomy to say, no, I don&#039;t want to be touched? I would think it would be a good thing to do, immersed in rape culture as we are. (And because it&#039;s hard to tell online, I&#039;m really sincere.)

Making offers for hugs by holding your arms open reminds me of romantic movies, where the woman (always the woman) makes it to the man, and he stands there, arms out, and she runs the last 10 feet into his arms.

Also, we should just substitute the namaste for handshakes. Put your hands together, and make a slight bow, almost a bob of the head. Though that may cause the same physical problem for people who can&#039;t shake hands, but it would be easier on those of us who don&#039;t know how to shake hands the right way (for our culture).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tori, I&#8217;m a bit confused by this:</p>
<p>&#8220;That said, it also gets me plenty of reactions like I am unconventional or out-of-line. And really, given that we’re all immersed in a rape culture, I kind of am. Not that I think my reaction is at all inappropriate — but it does go against a lot of the other messages people have learned about bodily autonomy. I’m not going to stop doing it, but I understand how it will be confusing to some people.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why does it go against other messages about bodily autonomy to say, no, I don&#8217;t want to be touched? I would think it would be a good thing to do, immersed in rape culture as we are. (And because it&#8217;s hard to tell online, I&#8217;m really sincere.)</p>
<p>Making offers for hugs by holding your arms open reminds me of romantic movies, where the woman (always the woman) makes it to the man, and he stands there, arms out, and she runs the last 10 feet into his arms.</p>
<p>Also, we should just substitute the namaste for handshakes. Put your hands together, and make a slight bow, almost a bob of the head. Though that may cause the same physical problem for people who can&#8217;t shake hands, but it would be easier on those of us who don&#8217;t know how to shake hands the right way (for our culture).</p>
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