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	<title>Comments on: Dear Imprudence: Just Toughen Up Already!</title>
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	<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/</link>
	<description>FWD (feminists with disabilities) for a way forward</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 17:29:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jayn</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/#comment-13283</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3602#comment-13283</guid>
		<description>Kaz: As if no one has a mental illness &lt;I&gt;because&lt;/I&gt; of &#039;toughening up&#039;.  I&#039;m convinced the only reason I didn&#039;t have a breakdown in high school was sheer stubbornness.  (Like I didn&#039;t have enough social problems before, lets add depression to the mix!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaz: As if no one has a mental illness <i>because</i> of &#8216;toughening up&#8217;.  I&#8217;m convinced the only reason I didn&#8217;t have a breakdown in high school was sheer stubbornness.  (Like I didn&#8217;t have enough social problems before, lets add depression to the mix!)</p>
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		<title>By: Kaz</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/#comment-13281</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3602#comment-13281</guid>
		<description>This hit home pretty hard.

My brother is two years older than me and although I would not call him abusive, verbally or otherwise, interacting with him is really bad for my self-confidence. He&#039;s quite blunt, confrontational, thinks anything and everything should be up for rational debate and delights in playing devil&#039;s advocate (someone once called him &quot;verbally aggressive&quot;; I know what they meant), this does not work very well with someone who has issues with depression, resulting shaky self-esteem, can&#039;t think well in a real-time situation and has other difficulties with verbal communication. Especially when you add in faded hero-worship/my-big-brother-is-always-right on my part. When I was younger he&#039;d take advantage of that, he stopped years ago but still... I love him lots, but I can&#039;t be around him too long because he is &lt;em&gt;bad&lt;/em&gt; for my mental health.

&quot;Toughen up?&quot; Yeah, &lt;em&gt;right.&lt;/em&gt; As if it&#039;s that easy. As if nobody has a mental illness that makes &quot;toughening up&quot; pretty much impossible. As if you can shake off a whole life&#039;s worth of patterns of interaction that easily. And that&#039;s in a &lt;em&gt;nonabusive&lt;/em&gt; situation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This hit home pretty hard.</p>
<p>My brother is two years older than me and although I would not call him abusive, verbally or otherwise, interacting with him is really bad for my self-confidence. He&#8217;s quite blunt, confrontational, thinks anything and everything should be up for rational debate and delights in playing devil&#8217;s advocate (someone once called him &#8220;verbally aggressive&#8221;; I know what they meant), this does not work very well with someone who has issues with depression, resulting shaky self-esteem, can&#8217;t think well in a real-time situation and has other difficulties with verbal communication. Especially when you add in faded hero-worship/my-big-brother-is-always-right on my part. When I was younger he&#8217;d take advantage of that, he stopped years ago but still&#8230; I love him lots, but I can&#8217;t be around him too long because he is <em>bad</em> for my mental health.</p>
<p>&#8220;Toughen up?&#8221; Yeah, <em>right.</em> As if it&#8217;s that easy. As if nobody has a mental illness that makes &#8220;toughening up&#8221; pretty much impossible. As if you can shake off a whole life&#8217;s worth of patterns of interaction that easily. And that&#8217;s in a <em>nonabusive</em> situation!</p>
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		<title>By: Astrid</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/#comment-13279</link>
		<dc:creator>Astrid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3602#comment-13279</guid>
		<description>@ Ami: I can totally relate to you. The verbal and physical hurt I got from my parents (I don&#039;t call it abuse) was always said to be my fault because I had behavior problems. I have a diagnosis of autism so I can be sure my behavior problems preceded the hurt, but that is no excuse for the hurting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Ami: I can totally relate to you. The verbal and physical hurt I got from my parents (I don&#8217;t call it abuse) was always said to be my fault because I had behavior problems. I have a diagnosis of autism so I can be sure my behavior problems preceded the hurt, but that is no excuse for the hurting.</p>
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		<title>By: JetGirl</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/#comment-13278</link>
		<dc:creator>JetGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3602#comment-13278</guid>
		<description>I feel for hurt sister, I really do. Abusive siblings can really screw you up, as a friend of mine can attest:
http://onefemalegaze.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/sibling-rivalry/
Luckily for hurt sister, she is almost in college and can hopefully get away from him soon. Call me cynical, but I doubt they&#039;ll be close when they&#039;re older. His loss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel for hurt sister, I really do. Abusive siblings can really screw you up, as a friend of mine can attest:<br />
<a href="http://onefemalegaze.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/sibling-rivalry/" rel="nofollow">http://onefemalegaze.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/sibling-rivalry/</a><br />
Luckily for hurt sister, she is almost in college and can hopefully get away from him soon. Call me cynical, but I doubt they&#8217;ll be close when they&#8217;re older. His loss.</p>
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		<title>By: Ami</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/#comment-13273</link>
		<dc:creator>Ami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3602#comment-13273</guid>
		<description>And this is why, on some level, I still question whether or not what I experienced at home was truly abuse. It was always implied that I provoked it and it was up to me to fix it. When I got a diagnosis of bipolar, my family was like, &quot;oh, that&#039;s why she was so reactive, emotional and difficult to deal with. She wasn&#039;t in her right mind and so she provoked her abuser.&quot; Other way around people, the extreme stress I experienced at home as a teenager likely contributed to triggering a condition I was predisposed to but wouldn&#039;t necessarily develop. So, thanks for that.

Sorry if this is only tangential to the original post. I&#039;ve had a very triggering day and needed to get something out. This seems like a safe space to do so. But again, I apologize for the potential thread-jacking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And this is why, on some level, I still question whether or not what I experienced at home was truly abuse. It was always implied that I provoked it and it was up to me to fix it. When I got a diagnosis of bipolar, my family was like, &#8220;oh, that&#8217;s why she was so reactive, emotional and difficult to deal with. She wasn&#8217;t in her right mind and so she provoked her abuser.&#8221; Other way around people, the extreme stress I experienced at home as a teenager likely contributed to triggering a condition I was predisposed to but wouldn&#8217;t necessarily develop. So, thanks for that.</p>
<p>Sorry if this is only tangential to the original post. I&#8217;ve had a very triggering day and needed to get something out. This seems like a safe space to do so. But again, I apologize for the potential thread-jacking.</p>
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		<title>By: Kite</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/#comment-13272</link>
		<dc:creator>Kite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3602#comment-13272</guid>
		<description>Yeah, my family&#039;s given me that line so so many times. Constant bullying at school? Toughen up! You probably provoked it! Father &amp; mother causing me to cry every night? Get over it already! Escalating to violence? Well, that&#039;s not good, but they just lost their temper, that&#039;s all! Still angry several years later? You&#039;re just looking for something to feel victimised by!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, my family&#8217;s given me that line so so many times. Constant bullying at school? Toughen up! You probably provoked it! Father &amp; mother causing me to cry every night? Get over it already! Escalating to violence? Well, that&#8217;s not good, but they just lost their temper, that&#8217;s all! Still angry several years later? You&#8217;re just looking for something to feel victimised by!</p>
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		<title>By: icca</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/#comment-13262</link>
		<dc:creator>icca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3602#comment-13262</guid>
		<description>Never for abuse -- I kept that to myself while it was happening, then when I told people about it, I had nothing but support by most people I talked to.

But when I get upset when broadsided by a trigger?  Then I better toughen up.  It&#039;s not good for my depression to get triggered, after all!

Ugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never for abuse &#8212; I kept that to myself while it was happening, then when I told people about it, I had nothing but support by most people I talked to.</p>
<p>But when I get upset when broadsided by a trigger?  Then I better toughen up.  It&#8217;s not good for my depression to get triggered, after all!</p>
<p>Ugh.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaitlyn</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/#comment-13240</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaitlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 04:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3602#comment-13240</guid>
		<description>I did manage to achieve the &quot;sticks and stones&quot; with one person - my father. His insults about me (told to my sister, really nice dad or to the lawyers/judge) just rolled off my back, because they were so ludicrous and removed from reality. But it took a lot of time to remove any feelings I had for him. (Right now, I&#039;m cultivating a new one, but it&#039;s on my terms and I think he knows it - I reached out to him, he only suggests the dates for watching the movies.)

But words do hurt, even from people you don&#039;t know, especially when you&#039;re an adolescent. In middle school (maybe 6th grade), I had a shirt that said &quot;I will not talk to boys&quot; in Bart Simpson chalkboard-style punishment. The last lines dropped the &quot;not.&quot; As I got on the bus, I heard two boys say &quot;lesbian&quot; when I got on. Never wore that shirt again.

Words hurt. A lot. The internet has shown that again and again to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did manage to achieve the &#8220;sticks and stones&#8221; with one person &#8211; my father. His insults about me (told to my sister, really nice dad or to the lawyers/judge) just rolled off my back, because they were so ludicrous and removed from reality. But it took a lot of time to remove any feelings I had for him. (Right now, I&#8217;m cultivating a new one, but it&#8217;s on my terms and I think he knows it &#8211; I reached out to him, he only suggests the dates for watching the movies.)</p>
<p>But words do hurt, even from people you don&#8217;t know, especially when you&#8217;re an adolescent. In middle school (maybe 6th grade), I had a shirt that said &#8220;I will not talk to boys&#8221; in Bart Simpson chalkboard-style punishment. The last lines dropped the &#8220;not.&#8221; As I got on the bus, I heard two boys say &#8220;lesbian&#8221; when I got on. Never wore that shirt again.</p>
<p>Words hurt. A lot. The internet has shown that again and again to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Politicalguineapig</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/#comment-13238</link>
		<dc:creator>Politicalguineapig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 01:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3602#comment-13238</guid>
		<description>Cat: I did that too, only in elementary school- oh, and I stopped hanging out with girls my age for a while.  I still feel uneasy in a group of women or girls.It took me a long time to even contemplate lowering the barriers.
  Oh and that old &quot;sticks and stones&quot; thing? I would&#039;ve  preferred to be beaten every single day- because Miss Oblivious (my first grade teacher, name changed for liability reasons)  would&#039;ve had to act.  For most adults, if they don&#039;t see it, it doesn&#039;t exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cat: I did that too, only in elementary school- oh, and I stopped hanging out with girls my age for a while.  I still feel uneasy in a group of women or girls.It took me a long time to even contemplate lowering the barriers.<br />
  Oh and that old &#8220;sticks and stones&#8221; thing? I would&#8217;ve  preferred to be beaten every single day- because Miss Oblivious (my first grade teacher, name changed for liability reasons)  would&#8217;ve had to act.  For most adults, if they don&#8217;t see it, it doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
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		<title>By: kaninchenzero</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/07/23/dear-imprudence-just-toughen-up-already/#comment-13212</link>
		<dc:creator>kaninchenzero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 22:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=3602#comment-13212</guid>
		<description>this is also my objection to cognitive and cognitive-behavioural schools of psychotherapy (very much including schema therapy) and why i think psychotherapy and psychiatry fails so very many people so dismally. they all say something not unlike this to patients. my therapist finds it frustrating that i am triggered to panic and/or rage by phrases like &quot;we have to get you to where you aren&#039;t hurt by what they do.&quot; i&#039;m supposed to react different when she says it than when my abusers said the exact same thing because she wants to help me, wants what&#039;s best for me.

that is no help &#8212; my abusers said &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; too.

anyway the point here being the patient is told &#8212; often explicitly &#8212; that the people abusing ou will not change so ou must change to become a person who is not harmed by emotional abuse. while it&#039;s true the patient is rarely in a position to change anyone else&#039;s behaviour (i have damned little influence over any of the people who harm me) it&#039;s a dangerous message. it makes the very people to whom the patient has turned to for help party to the harm ou suffered. we&#039;ve already been told it&#039;s our fault we hurt and we just need to buck up. many of us have come from backgrounds where real injustices were perpetrated against us and placing the burden of change on us rather than the people doing harm only tells us this is another person we can&#039;t trust.

it&#039;s the myth of personal responsibility again; we cannot help being harmed by structures that harm us. being told &quot;it&#039;s only true if you think it is&quot; is wildly unhelpful when, say, it&#039;s perfectly acceptable for people to go on television and claim &lt;em&gt;your family&lt;/em&gt; is the same thing as raping children or torturing animals. this really harms real people. it&#039;s far more than just words.

but damned if i can get most het mental and medical health professionals i interact with to understand that. for some reason they seem to think the words don&#039;t mean what they say. i need to not be harmed by that or somehow stop interacting with a world hostile to my existence.

so far i haven&#039;t figured out how to do either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is also my objection to cognitive and cognitive-behavioural schools of psychotherapy (very much including schema therapy) and why i think psychotherapy and psychiatry fails so very many people so dismally. they all say something not unlike this to patients. my therapist finds it frustrating that i am triggered to panic and/or rage by phrases like &#8220;we have to get you to where you aren&#8217;t hurt by what they do.&#8221; i&#8217;m supposed to react different when she says it than when my abusers said the exact same thing because she wants to help me, wants what&#8217;s best for me.</p>
<p>that is no help &#8212; my abusers said <em>that</em> too.</p>
<p>anyway the point here being the patient is told &#8212; often explicitly &#8212; that the people abusing ou will not change so ou must change to become a person who is not harmed by emotional abuse. while it&#8217;s true the patient is rarely in a position to change anyone else&#8217;s behaviour (i have damned little influence over any of the people who harm me) it&#8217;s a dangerous message. it makes the very people to whom the patient has turned to for help party to the harm ou suffered. we&#8217;ve already been told it&#8217;s our fault we hurt and we just need to buck up. many of us have come from backgrounds where real injustices were perpetrated against us and placing the burden of change on us rather than the people doing harm only tells us this is another person we can&#8217;t trust.</p>
<p>it&#8217;s the myth of personal responsibility again; we cannot help being harmed by structures that harm us. being told &#8220;it&#8217;s only true if you think it is&#8221; is wildly unhelpful when, say, it&#8217;s perfectly acceptable for people to go on television and claim <em>your family</em> is the same thing as raping children or torturing animals. this really harms real people. it&#8217;s far more than just words.</p>
<p>but damned if i can get most het mental and medical health professionals i interact with to understand that. for some reason they seem to think the words don&#8217;t mean what they say. i need to not be harmed by that or somehow stop interacting with a world hostile to my existence.</p>
<p>so far i haven&#8217;t figured out how to do either.<br />
<span class="cluv">kaninchenzero´s last [type] ..<a class="75b4bb4f4d 13212" rel="nofollow" href="http://kaninchen.dreamwidth.org/6192.html">why share when you can overshare</a></span></p>
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