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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s a scooter, not a Mack truck</title>
	<atom:link href="http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/</link>
	<description>FWD (feminists with disabilities) for a way forward</description>
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		<title>By: solea</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4896</link>
		<dc:creator>solea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1981#comment-4896</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;[Mod note: I&#039;m letting this through purely as a shining example of what not to do. It&#039;s a giant steaming heap of TABsplanation. solea, we already know that bigoted ablefolk are assholes, and have a fair handle on the faulty reasoning behind it. We really don&#039;t need to you dropping in to explain in minute detail why we make you so very uncomfortable, and we are not your life coaches. Go reflect deeply on your prejudice in some other space, like maybe the shower. ~L]&lt;/em&gt;



I am NT (at least, for all practical purposes in this scenario) and (definitely) TAB, and here’s what I was thinking. I&#039;ve ordered these thoughts from least to most offensive, so that anyone can stop reading before it gets completely ugly. (Roughly from the third bullet point onward.)

- I think that things on wheels are faster than things on legs, unless I&#039;m actively passing a scooter due to its slow speed (in that case I am more confident that your scooter isn&#039;t a threat).

- The idea of colliding with machinery of any kind is more frightening to me than colliding with flesh and limbs, even if there&#039;s a significant speed difference. 

- I think that you&#039;ll run over my foot. The idea that someone in a scooter will mow me down is odd, but the idea that I have to leap out of the way instead of merely retracting a foot as you pass is even odder.

- I don&#039;t trust that you&#039;ll stop or avoid me. It&#039;s not that I think you&#039;re evil, it&#039;s that I think your disability might also affect your visual perception. (This means I fundamentally distrust your judgment, by assuming you&#039;ll ride a scooter even if it could endanger yourself &amp; others.)

- I think you don&#039;t care about avoiding a collision as much as I do, because I&#039;ll be hurt more in the hypothetical collision. (This means I&#039;m not considering the potential for you being injured, humiliated, or publicly chastised for colliding with me.)

- So, to sum up, in my head:

+ your scooter is just a miniature car and therefore a menace to walking pedestrians
+ you may not be able to control your scooter or perceive that I&#039;m in your way
+ your scooter has the capacity to cause great embarrassment and damage to me if we collide (I&#039;m not thinking whatsoever about the embarrassment or damage to you)

I don&#039;t actually *leap* out of the way, but I&#039;m sure I have a look of palpable tension on my face, and I definitely veer more than is necessary. My veering is more &quot;you might be the iceberg to my Titanic&quot;, not so much &quot;allow me to make space for you, fellow sidewalk user&quot;. Even in cases where I perceive you as moving slowly enough to not count as &quot;threat&quot;, I still veer, because I&#039;m trying to distinguish myself from TAB pedestrians who stand around chatting on a narrow sidewalk while you wait. Like, cookies for the enthusiastic ally plz! Which is also silly, because obviously who does it serve when I make such an emphatic gesture? You just need me to negotiate the space as I would with any other entity. My show of consideration - and a &quot;show&quot; is exactly what it is - reminds me of the occasional white ally who shows up to a POC event, bubbling over with self-flagellation on their race&#039;s behalf like &quot;Omigod, we white people are such crap!&quot;

It&#039;s important that I note that I don&#039;t have these perceptions because of any disability or negative scooter experience as far as I know. I have definitely never worked at Disneyland. I&#039;ve never collided with a car or bike, let alone a scooter. So yeah, it&#039;s pretty much as bad as you&#039;d think. Maybe some NT+TAB folks out there have less appalling attitudes, but these are mine (at least, when I track my initial responses to their underlying implications. Typically I don&#039;t think about it, which is the problem.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>[Mod note: I'm letting this through purely as a shining example of what not to do. It's a giant steaming heap of TABsplanation. solea, we already know that bigoted ablefolk are assholes, and have a fair handle on the faulty reasoning behind it. We really don't need to you dropping in to explain in minute detail why we make you so very uncomfortable, and we are not your life coaches. Go reflect deeply on your prejudice in some other space, like maybe the shower. ~L]</em></p>
<p>I am NT (at least, for all practical purposes in this scenario) and (definitely) TAB, and here’s what I was thinking. I&#8217;ve ordered these thoughts from least to most offensive, so that anyone can stop reading before it gets completely ugly. (Roughly from the third bullet point onward.)</p>
<p>- I think that things on wheels are faster than things on legs, unless I&#8217;m actively passing a scooter due to its slow speed (in that case I am more confident that your scooter isn&#8217;t a threat).</p>
<p>- The idea of colliding with machinery of any kind is more frightening to me than colliding with flesh and limbs, even if there&#8217;s a significant speed difference. </p>
<p>- I think that you&#8217;ll run over my foot. The idea that someone in a scooter will mow me down is odd, but the idea that I have to leap out of the way instead of merely retracting a foot as you pass is even odder.</p>
<p>- I don&#8217;t trust that you&#8217;ll stop or avoid me. It&#8217;s not that I think you&#8217;re evil, it&#8217;s that I think your disability might also affect your visual perception. (This means I fundamentally distrust your judgment, by assuming you&#8217;ll ride a scooter even if it could endanger yourself &amp; others.)</p>
<p>- I think you don&#8217;t care about avoiding a collision as much as I do, because I&#8217;ll be hurt more in the hypothetical collision. (This means I&#8217;m not considering the potential for you being injured, humiliated, or publicly chastised for colliding with me.)</p>
<p>- So, to sum up, in my head:</p>
<p>+ your scooter is just a miniature car and therefore a menace to walking pedestrians<br />
+ you may not be able to control your scooter or perceive that I&#8217;m in your way<br />
+ your scooter has the capacity to cause great embarrassment and damage to me if we collide (I&#8217;m not thinking whatsoever about the embarrassment or damage to you)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t actually *leap* out of the way, but I&#8217;m sure I have a look of palpable tension on my face, and I definitely veer more than is necessary. My veering is more &#8220;you might be the iceberg to my Titanic&#8221;, not so much &#8220;allow me to make space for you, fellow sidewalk user&#8221;. Even in cases where I perceive you as moving slowly enough to not count as &#8220;threat&#8221;, I still veer, because I&#8217;m trying to distinguish myself from TAB pedestrians who stand around chatting on a narrow sidewalk while you wait. Like, cookies for the enthusiastic ally plz! Which is also silly, because obviously who does it serve when I make such an emphatic gesture? You just need me to negotiate the space as I would with any other entity. My show of consideration &#8211; and a &#8220;show&#8221; is exactly what it is &#8211; reminds me of the occasional white ally who shows up to a POC event, bubbling over with self-flagellation on their race&#8217;s behalf like &#8220;Omigod, we white people are such crap!&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important that I note that I don&#8217;t have these perceptions because of any disability or negative scooter experience as far as I know. I have definitely never worked at Disneyland. I&#8217;ve never collided with a car or bike, let alone a scooter. So yeah, it&#8217;s pretty much as bad as you&#8217;d think. Maybe some NT+TAB folks out there have less appalling attitudes, but these are mine (at least, when I track my initial responses to their underlying implications. Typically I don&#8217;t think about it, which is the problem.)</p>
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		<title>By: Lake Desire</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4858</link>
		<dc:creator>Lake Desire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1981#comment-4858</guid>
		<description>I second Kali on the unwieldiness of theme park scooters.  I&#039;m also a former Disney employee and working in the stroller and wheelchair rental at Disney World.  I had guests drive scooters into me a few times, but I was hit more frequently by those double-wide strollers (my ankles were regularly covered in bruises).  While I admit I was pretty snippy with the people who drove into me, that job showed me (when I was a bratty, oblivious 20 year old) how inaccessible theme parks are to people with disabilities as I tried to navigate crowds and narrow-walkways riding our rental scooters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second Kali on the unwieldiness of theme park scooters.  I&#8217;m also a former Disney employee and working in the stroller and wheelchair rental at Disney World.  I had guests drive scooters into me a few times, but I was hit more frequently by those double-wide strollers (my ankles were regularly covered in bruises).  While I admit I was pretty snippy with the people who drove into me, that job showed me (when I was a bratty, oblivious 20 year old) how inaccessible theme parks are to people with disabilities as I tried to navigate crowds and narrow-walkways riding our rental scooters.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse the K</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4841</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse the K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1981#comment-4841</guid>
		<description>Ms. M @12: you are so right-on about humongous baby strollers! At least in the U.S., in the last five years, strollers have gone from modest umbrella-like contraptions to mighty vehicles inspired by Hummer Army trucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms. M @12: you are so right-on about humongous baby strollers! At least in the U.S., in the last five years, strollers have gone from modest umbrella-like contraptions to mighty vehicles inspired by Hummer Army trucks.</p>
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		<title>By: coldneedles</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4822</link>
		<dc:creator>coldneedles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1981#comment-4822</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;not everyone using them is considerate, has swift reflexes with the breaks or uses them at a sensible speed&lt;/i&gt;

Not to be rude or anything, but I know this and I&#039;m pretty sure Lauredhel does as well. We&#039;re not talking about people driving their scooters badly, we&#039;re talking about people acting scandalized at someone using a scooter&#039;s very presence. It seems like there&#039;s always this big rush to &lt;a href=&quot;http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090811.6145/we-are-dying/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blame scooter users&lt;/a&gt; and not abled people or poor accessibility. 

(I had the worst acessibility day yesterday so I&#039;m feeling touchy about the whole thing.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>not everyone using them is considerate, has swift reflexes with the breaks or uses them at a sensible speed</i></p>
<p>Not to be rude or anything, but I know this and I&#8217;m pretty sure Lauredhel does as well. We&#8217;re not talking about people driving their scooters badly, we&#8217;re talking about people acting scandalized at someone using a scooter&#8217;s very presence. It seems like there&#8217;s always this big rush to <a href="http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090811.6145/we-are-dying/" rel="nofollow">blame scooter users</a> and not abled people or poor accessibility. </p>
<p>(I had the worst acessibility day yesterday so I&#8217;m feeling touchy about the whole thing.)</p>
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		<title>By: lilacsigil</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4819</link>
		<dc:creator>lilacsigil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1981#comment-4819</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;because I am seriously curious as to WTF is up with people&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m interested, too - I live in a very small town and haven&#039;t seen any of this behaviour with the three scooter users who live here. I have, however, seen it in the next big town over (11,000 people) so I&#039;m wondering if disability cooties is part of it. If you know someone personally - as everyone in my town knows the scooter users - you see the person and say hello rather than frantically ignoring or dramatically dodging the terrifying moral lesson of OMG disability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>because I am seriously curious as to WTF is up with people</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m interested, too &#8211; I live in a very small town and haven&#8217;t seen any of this behaviour with the three scooter users who live here. I have, however, seen it in the next big town over (11,000 people) so I&#8217;m wondering if disability cooties is part of it. If you know someone personally &#8211; as everyone in my town knows the scooter users &#8211; you see the person and say hello rather than frantically ignoring or dramatically dodging the terrifying moral lesson of OMG disability.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaitlyn</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4812</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaitlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1981#comment-4812</guid>
		<description>I think we&#039;re trying to say, &quot;I&#039;m not that person, I&#039;m a good person! I wouldn&#039;t act that way!&quot; which can definitely and rightly be interpreted as negation of what she experiences. &quot;It&#039;s just a few bad apples, honest!&quot;

As I said, there is no rational, non-*ist reason for people to do that, but no one would admit doing it - though I&#039;d love someone to go, hey, I think I did this and I am NT and TAB and here&#039;s what I was thinking. I would hope that if somebody did that they wouldn&#039;t be chastised and chased away, because I am seriously curious as to WTF is up with people. (About everything, but in this case acting like she&#039;s carrying a plague-ridden severed head in the basket.)

It would be awesome to confront these people as well, but it sucks that it falls to coldneedles and lauredhel. Though if I was with a group who did that, I&#039;d be like, what was that all about? And possibly yell an unheard sorry at the back of the scooter, or maybe, if I&#039;m feeling full-of-beans, go up to the person and apologize, because my friends/coworkers/family are... um... here&#039;s where it runs out of steam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we&#8217;re trying to say, &#8220;I&#8217;m not that person, I&#8217;m a good person! I wouldn&#8217;t act that way!&#8221; which can definitely and rightly be interpreted as negation of what she experiences. &#8220;It&#8217;s just a few bad apples, honest!&#8221;</p>
<p>As I said, there is no rational, non-*ist reason for people to do that, but no one would admit doing it &#8211; though I&#8217;d love someone to go, hey, I think I did this and I am NT and TAB and here&#8217;s what I was thinking. I would hope that if somebody did that they wouldn&#8217;t be chastised and chased away, because I am seriously curious as to WTF is up with people. (About everything, but in this case acting like she&#8217;s carrying a plague-ridden severed head in the basket.)</p>
<p>It would be awesome to confront these people as well, but it sucks that it falls to coldneedles and lauredhel. Though if I was with a group who did that, I&#8217;d be like, what was that all about? And possibly yell an unheard sorry at the back of the scooter, or maybe, if I&#8217;m feeling full-of-beans, go up to the person and apologize, because my friends/coworkers/family are&#8230; um&#8230; here&#8217;s where it runs out of steam.</p>
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		<title>By: meloukhia</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4809</link>
		<dc:creator>meloukhia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1981#comment-4809</guid>
		<description>I believe that Lauredhel already addressed this &lt;a href=&quot;http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4751&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;in her comment above&lt;/a&gt;, but it bears further exploration. The number of responses on this post informing Lauredhel that scooters are SCARY and that the people who drive them should not be treated as individual human beings has really been quite astounding.

What&#039;s especially interesting is the comments denying her experience. &quot;Oh, surely people are just moving politely out of the way.&quot; Now, I know from moving politely, and I bet Lauredhel does too. There&#039;s a significant difference between yielding, and making A Production out of moving out of the way. 

I must say, though, that the comment about &quot;pensioners&quot; makes me squirm a bit, because it seems to carry an ageist assumption that older adults are less likely to be able to handle a scooter. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that Lauredhel already addressed this <a href="http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4751" rel="nofollow">in her comment above</a>, but it bears further exploration. The number of responses on this post informing Lauredhel that scooters are SCARY and that the people who drive them should not be treated as individual human beings has really been quite astounding.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s especially interesting is the comments denying her experience. &#8220;Oh, surely people are just moving politely out of the way.&#8221; Now, I know from moving politely, and I bet Lauredhel does too. There&#8217;s a significant difference between yielding, and making A Production out of moving out of the way. </p>
<p>I must say, though, that the comment about &#8220;pensioners&#8221; makes me squirm a bit, because it seems to carry an ageist assumption that older adults are less likely to be able to handle a scooter.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaitlyn</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4806</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaitlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 02:14:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1981#comment-4806</guid>
		<description>Other people in scooters are person. Thank the academic gods my last exam is multiple choice! I will mess up the date, though.

... are people.

... persons.

Not that *you* should have to tell them that but that&#039;s what you get for souping up your scooter! Who&#039;s bright idea was that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other people in scooters are person. Thank the academic gods my last exam is multiple choice! I will mess up the date, though.</p>
<p>&#8230; are people.</p>
<p>&#8230; persons.</p>
<p>Not that *you* should have to tell them that but that&#8217;s what you get for souping up your scooter! Who&#8217;s bright idea was that?</p>
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		<title>By: Kaitlyn</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4805</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaitlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 02:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1981#comment-4805</guid>
		<description>I think you should brandish a sword and soup up your scooter to look scary - though of course, that will bring out the boys, because it looks cool and you will have been an **Inspirational Figure** or at least taught the kids by being, you know, a person, that hey, other people in scooters are person.

But I have an immature streak.

I&#039;m picturing a truck grill over the front... if you&#039;ve got a basket... and then make the grill scarier, like truckers do. Then get a truckers&#039; horn... *gets on the phone with trucker uncle*

If they treat it like it&#039;s a Mack Truck, make it one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you should brandish a sword and soup up your scooter to look scary &#8211; though of course, that will bring out the boys, because it looks cool and you will have been an **Inspirational Figure** or at least taught the kids by being, you know, a person, that hey, other people in scooters are person.</p>
<p>But I have an immature streak.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m picturing a truck grill over the front&#8230; if you&#8217;ve got a basket&#8230; and then make the grill scarier, like truckers do. Then get a truckers&#8217; horn&#8230; *gets on the phone with trucker uncle*</p>
<p>If they treat it like it&#8217;s a Mack Truck, make it one!</p>
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		<title>By: Fuchsia</title>
		<link>http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/12/15/its-a-scooter-not-a-mack-truck/#comment-4794</link>
		<dc:creator>Fuchsia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1981#comment-4794</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m guilty of leaping out of the way of scooters. I have a very real fear of being bashed into; I&#039;ve been rammed before by people in scooters traveling at speed, as well as by parents with heavily loaded pushchairs. It can hurt a lot more than just being bumped into by someone&#039;s body, and not everyone using them is considerate, has swift reflexes with the breaks or uses them at a sensible speed. I&#039;ve had bruises from pushchairs and scooters on the rare occasions when someone&#039;s actually hit me, but only a few times from far more frequent bumps with people not using them. I do come from an area with a large number of pensioners, though, so it could be that they&#039;re just not great at driving the things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m guilty of leaping out of the way of scooters. I have a very real fear of being bashed into; I&#8217;ve been rammed before by people in scooters traveling at speed, as well as by parents with heavily loaded pushchairs. It can hurt a lot more than just being bumped into by someone&#8217;s body, and not everyone using them is considerate, has swift reflexes with the breaks or uses them at a sensible speed. I&#8217;ve had bruises from pushchairs and scooters on the rare occasions when someone&#8217;s actually hit me, but only a few times from far more frequent bumps with people not using them. I do come from an area with a large number of pensioners, though, so it could be that they&#8217;re just not great at driving the things.</p>
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