Comments on: “Bad Cripple” http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/ FWD (feminists with disabilities) for a way forward Thu, 30 Dec 2010 17:29:21 +0000 hourly 1 By: Nyx http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/#comment-17748 Nyx Wed, 08 Dec 2010 11:02:39 +0000 http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1181#comment-17748 Personally, dark humor is the only way I can cope, sometimes, so I hear that. If I only thought of my mental illness as Srs Bsns Doom and Gloom 24/7, it would be the exact opposite of helpful. But these things do tend to get misinterpreted by outsiders- or even people who should know better, sometimes. These attitudes are just so baffling to me. Why is it so hard to accept that, if someone says they have a disability, they are telling the truth? Why would anyone lie about that? People seem so invested in a very specific idea of what a Disabled Person™ should be/look like that if anyone doesn't match that image, they must be lying to cheat the system! Because that, inexplicably, is easier for them to accept than accepting the fact that their conception of what disability is is too narrow. Sigh. Personally, dark humor is the only way I can cope, sometimes, so I hear that. If I only thought of my mental illness as Srs Bsns Doom and Gloom 24/7, it would be the exact opposite of helpful. But these things do tend to get misinterpreted by outsiders- or even people who should know better, sometimes.

These attitudes are just so baffling to me. Why is it so hard to accept that, if someone says they have a disability, they are telling the truth? Why would anyone lie about that? People seem so invested in a very specific idea of what a Disabled Person™ should be/look like that if anyone doesn’t match that image, they must be lying to cheat the system! Because that, inexplicably, is easier for them to accept than accepting the fact that their conception of what disability is is too narrow. Sigh.

]]> By: salla http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/#comment-4524 salla Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:42:47 +0000 http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1181#comment-4524 I hate myth of the Bad Cripple and the way people refuse to believe in the problems of others if their issues don't express themselves identically to the way they expect(want) them too. I actually once got into an argument with a friend because my vitamin deficiency doesn't cause me to pass out like someone else she knows. My "friend" assured me that I was just being a gullible hypochondriac and don't need the vitamin shots I get, that it was probably just me mismanaging one of my other health problems because she's been on WebMD and knows somebody. What she didn't want to listen to was the fact that even if everything else is being managed perfectly and I'm taking normal vitamins as well as extra supplements everyday and I'm not getting those shots at least every month, I start losing my ability to speak properly, my memory is shot, I get so tired that I stumble like a drunk and every step somehow results in a sprained ankle. I would actually love it if I could go without the shots because they cost me $40 a pop with insurance and I make minimum wage. And I hate being called crazy or a hypochondriac for acknowledging that I have problems, which I usually have to complain about for years before doctors go "huh, I think you have a problem." I really like the site and reading about other people's experiences because it makes me feel so much less isolated and alone. I hate myth of the Bad Cripple and the way people refuse to believe in the problems of others if their issues don’t express themselves identically to the way they expect(want) them too.
I actually once got into an argument with a friend because my vitamin deficiency doesn’t cause me to pass out like someone else she knows. My “friend” assured me that I was just being a gullible hypochondriac and don’t need the vitamin shots I get, that it was probably just me mismanaging one of my other health problems because she’s been on WebMD and knows somebody.
What she didn’t want to listen to was the fact that even if everything else is being managed perfectly and I’m taking normal vitamins as well as extra supplements everyday and I’m not getting those shots at least every month, I start losing my ability to speak properly, my memory is shot, I get so tired that I stumble like a drunk and every step somehow results in a sprained ankle.
I would actually love it if I could go without the shots because they cost me $40 a pop with insurance and I make minimum wage. And I hate being called crazy or a hypochondriac for acknowledging that I have problems, which I usually have to complain about for years before doctors go “huh, I think you have a problem.” I really like the site and reading about other people’s experiences because it makes me feel so much less isolated and alone.

]]> By: amandaw http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/#comment-3446 amandaw Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:40:48 +0000 http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1181#comment-3446 Norah, you are not out of bounds at all. If you ever feel uncomfortable like that with something someone is saying here, we want you to feel comfortable raising the issue. That phrasing made me a bit squirmy too; sometimes when we speak admiringly about certain characteristics, that can actually create a standard of perfection that the people in question, being human, can never meet -- thus leaving them in the cold in yet another way. I'm always uncomfortable when people say "It's just my body that's broken/injured/etc. not my brain" -- what happens when I'm not "brilliant"? or if I am, but the fog prevents me using that brilliance? or etc... (Elaine, I do agree with the thrust of your comment -- the way we set up the job seeking process is exclusive to people who don't have the privilege of "social skills" such as they're defined in popular society, and we need to really start thinking through how we might change it so as not to leave people out who may be damn fine at the job they're seeking, but have to pass through irrelevant hoops (interviews, etc.) to get there.) Norah, you are not out of bounds at all. If you ever feel uncomfortable like that with something someone is saying here, we want you to feel comfortable raising the issue. That phrasing made me a bit squirmy too; sometimes when we speak admiringly about certain characteristics, that can actually create a standard of perfection that the people in question, being human, can never meet — thus leaving them in the cold in yet another way. I’m always uncomfortable when people say “It’s just my body that’s broken/injured/etc. not my brain” — what happens when I’m not “brilliant”? or if I am, but the fog prevents me using that brilliance? or etc…

(Elaine, I do agree with the thrust of your comment — the way we set up the job seeking process is exclusive to people who don’t have the privilege of “social skills” such as they’re defined in popular society, and we need to really start thinking through how we might change it so as not to leave people out who may be damn fine at the job they’re seeking, but have to pass through irrelevant hoops (interviews, etc.) to get there.)

]]> By: Kaz http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/#comment-3400 Kaz Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:51:19 +0000 http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1181#comment-3400 @Travis: I sympathise on various counts! I stutter (the speech disorder, that is), and I also get weird word mixups going on when under stress - I start talking without knowing what I'm saying and wind up getting things very confused. The thing is, I think I'm generally pretty good at passing; I don't stim that obviously and can suppress it quite well, I'm pretty good at eye contact these days and have managed to learn a lot about socially inappropriate behaviour etc. This, and the fact that the field I want to go into (academic mathematics) is more lenient when it comes to Aspie-like behaviour than many, makes me think I probably have better chances at an interview than many people. But then there's the terrible terrible disorganisation and the chronic lateness and the way people will just drop these "but didn't you do X? You should have done X five months ago!" when I have never heard of X before things on me and the difficulty figuring out what's important and what isn't and and and... When it comes to diagnosis, I will toss in that getting a diagnosis is not necessarily that easily done and something that does have possible downsides (e.g. stigma, possible forced disclosure, possible discrimination when it comes to health insurance if you're in the US, that kind of thing) - I basically refused to consider it until I was sure I needed one, but I can totally understand wanting to get rid of the self-diagnosis stigma. I was self-diagnosed for five years, and I hadn't realised how much of a weight it was until it was gone. And then it took me nine months to get one. Which is why I have to kind of object to the "nothing too daunting". D: @Travis: I sympathise on various counts! I stutter (the speech disorder, that is), and I also get weird word mixups going on when under stress – I start talking without knowing what I’m saying and wind up getting things very confused. The thing is, I think I’m generally pretty good at passing; I don’t stim that obviously and can suppress it quite well, I’m pretty good at eye contact these days and have managed to learn a lot about socially inappropriate behaviour etc. This, and the fact that the field I want to go into (academic mathematics) is more lenient when it comes to Aspie-like behaviour than many, makes me think I probably have better chances at an interview than many people. But then there’s the terrible terrible disorganisation and the chronic lateness and the way people will just drop these “but didn’t you do X? You should have done X five months ago!” when I have never heard of X before things on me and the difficulty figuring out what’s important and what isn’t and and and…

When it comes to diagnosis, I will toss in that getting a diagnosis is not necessarily that easily done and something that does have possible downsides (e.g. stigma, possible forced disclosure, possible discrimination when it comes to health insurance if you’re in the US, that kind of thing) – I basically refused to consider it until I was sure I needed one, but I can totally understand wanting to get rid of the self-diagnosis stigma. I was self-diagnosed for five years, and I hadn’t realised how much of a weight it was until it was gone.

And then it took me nine months to get one. Which is why I have to kind of object to the “nothing too daunting”. D:

]]> By: Norah http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/#comment-3389 Norah Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:30:33 +0000 http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1181#comment-3389 Elaine, "They really do need to figure out some way to help Autistic people to get to work. Many of them have brilliant minds and (especially Asperger’s) are only really disadvantaged in social interaction skills." Statements like that bother me a lot, hard form words around the why, so I'll see if I can once again gratefully make us of other people's writing... Something to do with, what if we don't have 'brilliant minds'? What if it's not just social skills we have trouble with? The (what it comes across as, anyway) implication that having a brilliant mind and 'only' social skills problems is better than. That it looks like that it's more because many of us have these brilliant minds that they really should help us get to work. And just something like the sentence structure having it framed like that, talking about 'them' etc. I dunno, maybe feels like being talked down to. And to note that it might also play a role that people often try to divide us up into categories like the high functioning and the low functioning in order to shut both groups up or further one at the expense of the other. Like, the kind of phrase like the second one in the quote is often used to both argue that these kinds of autistic people are both more worth helping and makes it that people deny or don't (want to) see a lot of difficulties they have. I really am wording this not at all like I want to and I don't feel like I'm saying what I want to say, or only circle around it or touch it on one side or the other, if that makes sense. I also took about 3/4 more words than intended just to get here :S. I really really hate when this happens. I can't find any of the more articulate stuff by other people because I really need to start mapping important blog posts etc. in my favourites more specifically... And I have a pretty bad sense about when I can/should say something about when what someone else said bothers me, maybe like I'm totally out of bounds here or maybe I read it wrong and no one else would agree. Elaine, “They really do need to figure out some way to help Autistic people to get to work. Many of them have brilliant minds and (especially Asperger’s) are only really disadvantaged in social interaction skills.”

Statements like that bother me a lot, hard form words around the why, so I’ll see if I can once again gratefully make us of other people’s writing…
Something to do with, what if we don’t have ‘brilliant minds’? What if it’s not just social skills we have trouble with? The (what it comes across as, anyway) implication that having a brilliant mind and ‘only’ social skills problems is better than. That it looks like that it’s more because many of us have these brilliant minds that they really should help us get to work. And just something like the sentence structure having it framed like that, talking about ‘them’ etc. I dunno, maybe feels like being talked down to.
And to note that it might also play a role that people often try to divide us up into categories like the high functioning and the low functioning in order to shut both groups up or further one at the expense of the other. Like, the kind of phrase like the second one in the quote is often used to both argue that these kinds of autistic people are both more worth helping and makes it that people deny or don’t (want to) see a lot of difficulties they have. I really am wording this not at all like I want to and I don’t feel like I’m saying what I want to say, or only circle around it or touch it on one side or the other, if that makes sense.
I also took about 3/4 more words than intended just to get here :S. I really really hate when this happens.

I can’t find any of the more articulate stuff by other people because I really need to start mapping important blog posts etc. in my favourites more specifically…

And I have a pretty bad sense about when I can/should say something about when what someone else said bothers me, maybe like I’m totally out of bounds here or maybe I read it wrong and no one else would agree.

]]> By: Elaine http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/#comment-3386 Elaine Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:42:19 +0000 http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1181#comment-3386 My partner has Asperger's and has only had jobs that didn't really have an interview thing. They really do need to figure out some way to help Autistic people to get to work. Many of them have brilliant minds and (especially Asperger's) are only really disadvantaged in social interaction skills. Travis, one of my friends also theorises that he has Asperger's, and he's probably right, but in his case it's very mild. The word order mixup thing that you speak of that increases with stress and tiredness is pretty typical of Asperger's, but I'm no expert. If you're worried about the self-diagnosis stigma, I suggest you get your doctor to do you a full analysis. My partner recently had his re-done... it's just a series of fairly simple tests and nothing too daunting :) My partner has Asperger’s and has only had jobs that didn’t really have an interview thing. They really do need to figure out some way to help Autistic people to get to work. Many of them have brilliant minds and (especially Asperger’s) are only really disadvantaged in social interaction skills.

Travis, one of my friends also theorises that he has Asperger’s, and he’s probably right, but in his case it’s very mild. The word order mixup thing that you speak of that increases with stress and tiredness is pretty typical of Asperger’s, but I’m no expert. If you’re worried about the self-diagnosis stigma, I suggest you get your doctor to do you a full analysis. My partner recently had his re-done… it’s just a series of fairly simple tests and nothing too daunting :)

]]> By: the fat nutritionist http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/#comment-3223 the fat nutritionist Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:06:47 +0000 http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1181#comment-3223 Just...thanks. Just…thanks.

]]> By: Travis http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/#comment-3152 Travis Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:13:55 +0000 http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1181#comment-3152 @Kaz IME the biggest hurdle is interviews. The only jobs I've ever had were ones where I didn't have to really do the whole interview thing. There are a lot of jobs I could do perfectly well and am well qualified for, where I would not have to do things I'm not good at, but in order to get the job in the first place, I would have to pass the interview, which of course prioritise things like eye contact and smiling that are difficult for me, and look down at hand-flapping or speech problems (I have a stutter and word order mixup that gets worse with stress or tiredness, and of course interviews are hugely stressful, so...). And ugh, "fake aspies". I don't have an official diagnosis (no insurance, no money to pay for a doctor out of pocket), but am 100% certain that I am on the spectrum. I rarely say that I am, though, because there's such a stigma to self-diagnosis. @Kaz IME the biggest hurdle is interviews. The only jobs I’ve ever had were ones where I didn’t have to really do the whole interview thing. There are a lot of jobs I could do perfectly well and am well qualified for, where I would not have to do things I’m not good at, but in order to get the job in the first place, I would have to pass the interview, which of course prioritise things like eye contact and smiling that are difficult for me, and look down at hand-flapping or speech problems (I have a stutter and word order mixup that gets worse with stress or tiredness, and of course interviews are hugely stressful, so…).

And ugh, “fake aspies”. I don’t have an official diagnosis (no insurance, no money to pay for a doctor out of pocket), but am 100% certain that I am on the spectrum. I rarely say that I am, though, because there’s such a stigma to self-diagnosis.

]]> By: Norah http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/#comment-3101 Norah Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:16:45 +0000 http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1181#comment-3101 I don't even have to think about finding a way that I could work if they don't solve the home services situation first. I would need more assistance if I'm going to work too, but if you start working they give you less, not to mention that I receive nothing to begin with. Getting the job isn't even the biggest problem, I can actually get help with that, did it before. Keeping the job is going to be a bigger problem considering no one seems to be able to really help me map out exactly where I need assistance and what kind of job/situation would fit best, and if I could do that on my own I'd have done it by now. Even if they get that right I'm pretty much screwed and won't be able to get out of the "No services at home means using up all my spoons for weeks in advance which means that after a certain amount of time (the best I did so far was long enough for a "high school" (dutch version) diploma) it all falls apart and I'm sitting at home again, and not just that, but need months just to recover from that whole burnout-like experience, and oh yeah, at this point it'll be a miracle if my relationship is still going too" scenario that always plays out. Would be nice if it was only a matter of getting the right assistance with the actual working. Lucky for me I'm one of those people who really don't have a problem being at home all day (as opposed to regular work, not saying I don't wish to be out doing more like going to a gym or visiting friends) and filling my own time. I've never had a problem finding stuff to do and I don't get tired of my hobbies, and I can do the same thing over and over and really not get tired of it anyway (most people I tell don't believe me when I detail just how much I can repeat something and not grow tired of it. I consider it a Really Good Thing, though it's said to be a Symptom and people actually try to train you out of it). The best of it, of course, is that I'm finally about as relaxed and happy as I can probably get and can do what feels like SO MUCH around the house and for myself, especially since I can still remember the last time I attempted working so well. I don’t even have to think about finding a way that I could work if they don’t solve the home services situation first. I would need more assistance if I’m going to work too, but if you start working they give you less, not to mention that I receive nothing to begin with.

Getting the job isn’t even the biggest problem, I can actually get help with that, did it before. Keeping the job is going to be a bigger problem considering no one seems to be able to really help me map out exactly where I need assistance and what kind of job/situation would fit best, and if I could do that on my own I’d have done it by now. Even if they get that right I’m pretty much screwed and won’t be able to get out of the “No services at home means using up all my spoons for weeks in advance which means that after a certain amount of time (the best I did so far was long enough for a “high school” (dutch version) diploma) it all falls apart and I’m sitting at home again, and not just that, but need months just to recover from that whole burnout-like experience, and oh yeah, at this point it’ll be a miracle if my relationship is still going too” scenario that always plays out. Would be nice if it was only a matter of getting the right assistance with the actual working.

Lucky for me I’m one of those people who really don’t have a problem being at home all day (as opposed to regular work, not saying I don’t wish to be out doing more like going to a gym or visiting friends) and filling my own time. I’ve never had a problem finding stuff to do and I don’t get tired of my hobbies, and I can do the same thing over and over and really not get tired of it anyway (most people I tell don’t believe me when I detail just how much I can repeat something and not grow tired of it. I consider it a Really Good Thing, though it’s said to be a Symptom and people actually try to train you out of it). The best of it, of course, is that I’m finally about as relaxed and happy as I can probably get and can do what feels like SO MUCH around the house and for myself, especially since I can still remember the last time I attempted working so well.

]]> By: Sarah http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/11/19/bad-cripple/#comment-3068 Sarah Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:41:58 +0000 http://disabledfeminists.com/?p=1181#comment-3068 Re: Employment rate for Asperger's autistics: While the numbers are certainly a cause for concern and definitely mean that we need better employment services for autistic people, I'm cautious about taking the numbers themselves at face value. There are so many adults undiagnosed--especially women. So the current statistics we have about adult autistic people are at least somewhat unreliable, and there's probably some selection bias going on there. I know different professionals interpret "impairment" differently, and some refuse to diagnose AS for pretty ridiculous reasons. (You have a job, you have one friend, you're married, you're in graduate school, etc. As though any of that means you don't have any difficulties.) There's a lot of ignorance out there in the psychiatry industry, and a lot of adults who have no idea that this term may apply to them. Interpreting the current statistics with any degree of accuracy is a tough order. I completely understand worries about being employable, though, being an Asperger's autistic myself and having a partner who is as well. I'm still in school, fortunately for me, but my partner is struggling with this right now. It's so frustrating, because I know that he could be great at a number of jobs (in his area of interest), but because of social skill issues and other disabilities, getting these kinds of jobs is incredibly difficult. .-= Sarah´s last blog ..<a href="http://autisticcats.blogspot.com/2009/11/debunking-neanderthal-nonsense-part-ii.html" rel="nofollow">Debunking Neanderthal Nonsense Part II</a> =-. Re: Employment rate for Asperger’s autistics: While the numbers are certainly a cause for concern and definitely mean that we need better employment services for autistic people, I’m cautious about taking the numbers themselves at face value. There are so many adults undiagnosed–especially women. So the current statistics we have about adult autistic people are at least somewhat unreliable, and there’s probably some selection bias going on there. I know different professionals interpret “impairment” differently, and some refuse to diagnose AS for pretty ridiculous reasons. (You have a job, you have one friend, you’re married, you’re in graduate school, etc. As though any of that means you don’t have any difficulties.) There’s a lot of ignorance out there in the psychiatry industry, and a lot of adults who have no idea that this term may apply to them. Interpreting the current statistics with any degree of accuracy is a tough order.

I completely understand worries about being employable, though, being an Asperger’s autistic myself and having a partner who is as well. I’m still in school, fortunately for me, but my partner is struggling with this right now. It’s so frustrating, because I know that he could be great at a number of jobs (in his area of interest), but because of social skill issues and other disabilities, getting these kinds of jobs is incredibly difficult.
.-= Sarah´s last blog ..Debunking Neanderthal Nonsense Part II =-.

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